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[美國] 中國是否有很多人想移民海外?這種趨勢會傷害到中國的進步嗎? [美國媒體]

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發表于 2018-2-9 11:10:05 | 只看該作者 回帖獎勵 |倒序瀏覽 |閱讀模式
Do most Chinese people want to leave China for Western countries? How would this trend hurt China's progress?

中國是否有很多人想移民海外?這種趨勢會傷害到中國的進步嗎?

評論翻譯

1.Robin Daverman, World traveler(羅賓.達沃曼,quora人氣答主)
Answered Jun 20, 2015
No. What you see is a very high percentage of the ultra wealthy in China want to have an "option", in the form of a foreign passport, in case the Chinese government comes down and scrutinize the way they made their money. Let's face it - a lot of people have done something illegal to become the ultra-wealthy. Remember even Rockefeller did plenty of predatory and illegal stuff in order to grow Standard Oil to such a monstrous monopoly. So it's a risk management strategy for them. That's why the Chinese government is going around the globe sewing up extradition treaties with all the other countries to repatriate their ill-gotten gain just in case.

不會的,你所看到的調查結果是——很多中國的富裕的人希望能夠把移民作為一個選項,也就是說,他們想持有國外的護照,他們想防止中國對他們的賺錢方式進行審查。我實話實說吧——很多人做了一些非法的事情,他們最后成了超級富豪。為了讓標準石油公司能夠壟斷美國的原油交易,美國的洛克菲勒也做了很多違法的事情。所以對于中國的這些超級富裕的人來講,想要持有國外護照是一種風險管理策略。這就是為什么中國正在努力與世界上其他國家簽訂引渡條約,就是為了在預防萬一的情況下,追回這些人的非法所得。

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2.Anton Low, Decipher patterns. IQ160+. Shifted 7 cities in last decade.(安頓.勞,密碼破譯專家,智商160以上,過去十年輾轉了7個城市)
Answered Nov 27, 2015
I have spent 10 years in Canada  (many cities) and 2 years in Shanghai. China is very big and not everyone will be holding that same sentiment to be westernized. For every Chinese that wants to leave China there are a 100 or more that will stay. Reasons may differ. The poor wants to leave because in Western countries you can afford a house and car even working blue collar jobs. The rich does not really want to leave China make no mistake, they are just finding a place to park their money in Western countries.

我在加拿大已經有十年了,我在很多城市都住過。中國非常大,并不是每個人都抱著同樣的心態想要去擁抱西方。如果有一個人想要離開中國,那么就有一百個,或者是更多的中國人想要留在中國。原因可能各不相同。窮人想要離開,因為在西方國家,即使你做的是藍領的工作,你都可以負擔得起一套房子和一輛車。中國的富人并不是真的想離開中國,他們只是想找一個目的地,能夠把錢存在那里。

The wealth of the rich is made in China and they definitely see no reason to flee from China, but having a safe haven outside is great for troubled times. From my personal experience, I will say that if ever given the choice to choose to hold only 1 citizenship between Chinese citizenship or American, a wealthy Chinese will always choose to hold his/her Chinese passport. I have seen that choice being made by the wealthy and the reason is because they are nobody without their Chinese citizenship, they lose all their identity and Chinese people can be very proud.

這些有錢人的財富都是在中國創造出來的,他們沒有理由要逃離中國,但是如果在國外能有一個避風港的話,對于他們來講是一個不錯的選擇。以我個人經驗來看,如果真的有機會做一個選擇,在美國公民和中國公民之間選擇一個身份的話,那么富有的中國人就會選擇持有中國護照。我看到很多富有的人都是做了這樣的選擇,那是因為,一旦他們失去了中國國民的身份,他們便失去了他們的身份認同,而這種身份足以讓他們引以為豪。

Most foreigners have more negative views on China due to mass media. Same with myself before visiting China. I will implore you to visit Shanghai and re-consider your question. The expats in Shanghai are freaking having the time of their lives. Public transport is affordable and fast, you can buy stuff on Taobao with so much ease that it puts Ebay and Amazon to shame, you can buy very fresh groceries from yihaodian and they get to you by 6pm the same day just when you reach home and they are fresher than anything that you can pick for yourself, and yes the list can go on.

由于大眾媒體的影響,很多外國人對中國都持有負面的看法。在訪問中國之前,我也是有類似的看法。我建議你最好去上海看看,然后再重新審視一下你曾經的那些疑問。上海有很多外國人,他們確實也經歷了一些不可思議的事情。上海的公共的運輸系統是非常廉價的,而且速度很快。你可以在淘寶上買東西,非常的方便。淘寶的存在,使得ebay和亞馬遜都感到羞愧。你們可以從一號店里面買到非常新鮮的貨品。下午六點,當你回到住處的時候,貨品已經在你的購物柜里面了。這些東西非常的新鮮,你可以選擇各種各樣你想要的東西。還有很多其它各種各樣的好東西,這個名單可以一直的羅列下去。

If I need to return something from an online store, the delivery guy comes to my doorstep to pick it up and everything is done with zero hassle. The amount of activities in Shanghai is just plain crazy, I find myself going out so much more than anywhere else. Shanghai is now at 24 mil and it is the most populated city in the whole wide world, there are many benefits to that. I think there are more Chinese trying to move to Beijing or Shanghai (or any other tier 1 city) than to the western world, it is only if they cannot that they move to the western world. Seriously, visit Shanghai and get your heart stolen.

你從網上買了東西,如果你想要退掉的話,你只需要給快遞公司打個電話,然后快遞小哥就會來到你的樓下,你將東西交給他,然后一切就搞定了。上海有很多事情都讓人非常瘋狂,我去上海的次數比去其他任何地方都更多。上海現在有2400萬人口,從全世界來看,上海都是人口最多的城市之一,這樣會帶來很多好處。與搬到西方相比,我覺得中國人更想要去北京或者是上海。實話實說,如果你去了上海,你會覺得你的心被他給偷走了。

I still reminiscent on the day I will get to go back. No where else is quite the same as Shanghai. However, I am bilingual so maybe my experience will be different but my 'banana' friends (Chinese that only speak English) also find Shanghai to be impossible to leave. If you are rich, you are rich regardless of country anyways and the rich tend to enjoy more in China since the society can be more materialistic. Just on the record, I am no where near rich but I enjoyed my stay there.

我依然記得我離開上海的前一天的情景。其他任何地方都無法做到像上海一樣。我是會雙語的,所以我的感受可能和很多其他人的不一樣吧。我指的是我的“香蕉”朋友們,這些香蕉朋友們是黃皮白心兒的,他們不能說漢語,但是即使他們都覺得上海讓人非常迷戀。
如果你很富有的話,不管在哪里,你都會很富有的話。那么你可以考慮去中國,去上海,因為整個中國都是非常物質主義的,那里可以滿足你物質上的享受。當然,我并不是有錢人,但是我覺得在上海非常有意思。

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  3.Vincent Deschenes, A largely misunderstood and mysterious country that never fails to fascinate me.(溫賽特.迪切耐斯,住在一個外人覺得神秘,自己覺得平平的國家)
Answered Jan 29, 2016
This is not true.There isn't THAT many Chinese outside of China considering their massive population, for example Chinese don't leave their country more than Indians leave their country, there are in fact more Indian who migrate despite their slightly smaller population, this could also indicate that China merely has a better standard of living and also don't forget the fact that China has a very fast growing middle class and it is the biggest in the world, I am sure many Chinese find that their country is going in the right direction especially during the last couple decades given that China's economy was/is still booming. Also don't forget that more Chinese have access to better education, health system vastly improving etc this creates much better jobs than manufacturing and the improved education system also gives more people better opportunities.

這種說法有點不切實際啦。并沒有那么多中國人想要移民海外,就總的人口來看,印度移民海外的人口也是非常多的。雖然印度的人口更少一些,但是印度移民海外人口比中國更多。這可能是因為中國的生活質量更高,而且中國本身正在快速的發展,中國的發展機會非常多,中國有著全世界最大的中產階級。同時不要忘記,在中國,很多中國人都有機會獲得良好的教育。中國的醫療衛生體系也在大幅的改善,這同樣創造了大量的就業機會。教育系統本身也在不斷的升級,這同樣帶來了很多的就業機會。
?
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4.Yuanbin Phillip Tang, Chinese who spent 10+ years in North America(元賓.菲利普.唐,一個在北美待了十年的華人)
Answered Nov 24, 2015
An anecdotal story of my own:
My family immigrated to Canada in 2000 and I spent the next 12 years of my life there. Most of my friends in Junior High in China during this period either studied abroad (US/Europe/Australia) or immigrated with their family so I always thought that most people would wish to emigrate out of China for they all have a perception that the West is "better" (which I didn't agree). Then at the end of 2012 I had an opportunity to work in the city I grew up in so I took up the offer and moved back to China. Naturally I wanted to find a girlfriend and develop a relationship that will eventually turn to marriage.

我來說說我自己的故事吧:
我們家是2000年的時候移民到加拿大的,自那以后,我一直在加拿大呆到了2012年。我的很多高中時候的朋友也是在國外上學的,這包括美國,歐洲,澳大利亞。其中的很多人和他們的家庭一起移民到了海外,他們很多人對西方都有著一種期待,他們認為西方更好,但是這一點我不能認同。在2012年年底的時候,我有機會來到了我自己出生的那個城市,在那里獲得了一份工作。因為這個原因,我重新搬回了中國。很自然的,我想要找到一個女朋友,然后發展一段關系,最后結婚。

However, I was really surprised when I realized that having Canadian citizenship (meaning easy immigration for my wife) actually became a major drawback when I talk to girls about *marriage*. The majority of girls I dated/met during my time here openly expressed concerns regarding if I would leave the city once marriage happens in the first/first few dates and showed obvious reluctance when I told them "I might". I've now learned to say "Yes I plan to stay in NJ indefinitely - hey I have an apartment here already." when asked about leaving NJ/China.

然而,有一件事情我非常吃驚。因為我擁有加拿大的國籍,這樣我的妻子將會很容易就可以移民了。但是,當我和女孩子討論到結婚的時候,這個身份卻帶來了非常大的麻煩。在這段時間里面,我和幾個女孩子約會過。他們都公開的表示了擔憂,他們擔心一旦約會之后,我有可能很快就會離開這個城市,他們覺得這樣可能并不牢靠。當然我實話實說,我的回答是“我確實有可能離開這個城市”。然而,現在我不會那么說了。我會告訴她們“我會無限期的呆在NJ這個城市,我已經在那里買了房子”。

Now, my own experience is limited to girls in NJ, 25-35 years old, single (most still live with family) with education ranging from community college graduates to masters (no phds yet) so take it with a grain of salt. But from what I observe, the idea of leaving their comfort zone and start anew in a strange country that speaks another language is scary to say at the least.

當然,我的觀察僅限于我的觀察,僅限于25歲到35歲的單身女士,很多依然是與家人生活在一起的。這些女孩的學歷是從一般的大學到知名大學的碩士,目前我還沒有遇到過博士。所以我討論的只是我自己個人的看法。但是從我自己的觀察來看,對于這些女孩子來講,離開自己的國家,到了一個陌生的國家去生存,她們覺得這樣的想法是非常可怕的。

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  5.Daniel Calto, New Yorker, Shanghainese wife, two crazy boys—Transpacific(丹尼爾.卡托,紐約人,嫁給了上海人,有兩個孩子)
Answered Jan 28, 2016
No. Most Chinese people, like most people anywhere, are attached to the country and often the location where they live. Even migrant workers in China retain strong ties to their home province or village, and often have family there. There are certainly a number of people who do want to emigrate--many are among China's elite or at least prosperous class, often well-educated or at least sophisticated. Immogrants by nature are not average, they are exceptional--risk-takers or adventurers, ambitious, or at minimum willing to grapple with difficult choices and take big chances.

并沒有這樣,大多數的中國人,就好像大部分其他國家的人一樣,都更愿意待在他們本身出生的那個地方。即使那些到城市里打工的農民工都與原有的家鄉保持緊密聯系,而且他們家人也都經常會呆在農村。
當然也確實有一些人想要移民,這些人中包括中國的精英,或者至少是富裕階層。他們通常都受到過良好的教育,或者至少非常有投機的心理。大自然賦予給每個人的稟賦是不均勻的,這些人就是屬于那些例外,他們是屬于冒險家,他們野心勃勃。他們愿意面臨艱難的挑戰,他們愿意冒更大的風險。

One reason I really hate Trump's guts is that his inflammatory rhetoric is playing to the worst and most xenophobic fear of the other. Screw him--many immigrants have built far more successful businesses than his four-times-bankrupt overleveraged gaudy and ugly real estate empire. have you ever been in Trump Tower? It looks like a place where Roman Emporers or perhaps Gianni Versace would go to eat and drink excessively, have some cheap hookup and then visit the vomitorium--and that's only the lobby. But I digress.

美國選出了川普總統,川普總統經常會大放厥詞。他的很多言論恰恰迎合了那些最壞的,最排外的那種心理。他搞砸了美國的形象,很多移民都曾經創造了非常成功的企業,而川普總統卻四次破產,川普總統的企業是邪惡的房地產企業。你們去過特朗普大廈嗎?這個地方看起來就像是羅馬的購物中心,或者是范思哲的餐飲大廈。在這里你可以搞一些很低級的活動。抱歉,我離題了。

Even if a billion people wanted to emigrate from China, where would they go? Europe is in a meltdown over 1 million immigrants and has a population of 500M Immigration to the US is proceeding as usual. From 1900-1910, the US had more than 9 million immigrants arrive when its population was only 90M, but we survived and thrived. NYC metro now has 1M Chinese and we are doing fine. Indeed the parts of the country with the most dynamic economies also happen to be cites and states with a lot of immigrants--that is not a bug it's a feature.

就算有10億人都想要從中國移民到世界各地,那么他們要向哪里移民呢?一百萬的北非移民已經將歐洲搞得天翻地覆了。歐洲有5億人口,一百萬人口已經讓他難以忍受了,10億人口簡直想都不敢想。
每年依然有很多人移民到美國,從1900年到1910年的時候,有約900萬的人移民到了美國,而當時美國人口只是9000萬。但是最終美國人還是活下來了,而且活得很好。紐約現在有一百萬中國人,美國照樣也過得挺好。美國擁有全世界最具有活力的經濟體,這使得它能夠吸引來大量的移民,這并不是什么劣勢,這是一個經濟體有吸引力的表現。

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6.Chara Chan, born and raised in Sichuan, China(恰拉.嚴,和大熊貓是老鄉)
upxed Sep 8
I think this depends on a person's vision and values of life.Take my billionaire client as example.He spared no efforts to send his son from a third-tier city in Sichuan to the US, but it turned out that this kid was so obsessive with the online games that he decided to quit our class and returned to the school to have the college entrance exam. The kid's original remark was:"all I want to be is an average man. I don't want to go abroad at all!"Here's my conversation with his dad back in 2013, who used to be a financially challenged Sichuanese migrant worker working in the factories in Canton 30 years ago.

我覺得這取決于一個人的見識和他的價值觀。以我的億萬富翁客戶為例,他花了極大的代價,將他的兒子從中國的一個三線城市給送到了美國。但是事實證明,這個孩子對網絡游戲非常癡迷。這個富翁最后絕望了,他決定讓他兒子回到中國,然后讓他去參加高考。這個孩子最初是這樣說的:“我想成為一個普通人,我一點都不想出國。” 如下,我列出了我和他的父親在2013年的時候的談話。30年前的時候,這位億萬富翁還在東莞打過工。

His dad: "I didn't want to send him to the best American universities because I don't think knowledge is that important. But I want him to see the world so as to expand his vision. I learned how to climb the social ladder from Cantonese that I worked with. Had I stayed in Sichuan at that time, I would have become used to the lazy lifestyle in Sichuan and remained poor for the rest of my life. "
Me: "I can't agree with you more. Knowledge in the colleges is often of little use in the working place, but his lack of ambition has to be changed."

他的父親:“我不想將我的兒子送到美國最好的大學,因為我并不認為知識很重要。但我認為他應該好好的看看這個世界,以便于他能夠擴展他的視野。我曾經和廣東人一起工作,我從他那里學會了向社會上層攀爬的技巧。如果我還呆在四川的話,我可能會像我的那些老鄉一樣那么懶散,而我的余生將依然在貧窮當中度過”。
我:“我非常同意你的看法,大學的知識通常用處很小,他們在工作當中發揮的作用有限,但是一個人缺乏野心的話,這是非常致命的。”

In my case, my colleague urged me to migrate to Canada with her in 2009 through skilled migrant application to Quebec first, who later nailed down 2 PRs from Australia and Canada by herself. At first, I went to the French class with her every evening and consulted with her agent constantly, before I became familiar with all the procedures and read all kinds of posts online about Chinese's life in Canada. But, I gave it up in the end after I had a conversation with an American scientist who graduated from Cal Tech.

以我的經歷來看,我的同事在2009年的時候,慫恿我通過技術移民和她一起移民去加拿大。當時計劃首先移民到魁北克。之后,他獲得了澳大利亞和加拿大的簽證,一開始,我每天晚上都和她一塊去上法語課(譯者注:魁北克以前是法國的殖民地,所以當地人主要講法語)。然后我們頻繁的和移民中介進行接觸。我開始熟悉了移民的所有的流程,然后閱讀了很多關于中國人在加拿大生活的帖子。最終,當我和一位加州大學畢業的科學家聊天之后,我還是建議我的同事放棄移民的打算。

He said:"I found you rather frustrated at your life recently."
I said: "What is the meaning of life?"
He said: "There are only 2 things in your life that you have to devote yourself to: family or career. My family life is a disaster but at least I have a very promising career."
I have already had a career in China, which provides me with the same salary as that of my American counterparts plus the social recognition from my clients, be they high officials or the entrepreneurs.

科學家說:“我覺得你最近的生活看起來好像很沮喪”。
我:“生活的意義究竟是什么?”
科學家:“你生命中只有兩件事情比較重要,你應該要為他們付出你全部的精力,第一是你的家庭,第二是你的職業。我的家庭生活是一個災難,但是至少我的職業前景還不錯”。
我在中國已經有了一份工作,這份工作給我的薪酬和我在美國的同事幾乎相當,我還能夠獲得我的客戶和社會的認可。他們都是高級的官員,或者是企業家。

I'm very good at raising kids' academic performance in TOEFL and IELTS within days or weeks, which saves their time and money. Can I earn the same respect and money in Canada? I really doubt about this.So, in China, I have at least my career, despite my single life.But, in Canada, I would have no career or family but endless winter days.To sum it up, most of the Chinese still want to stay in China. When one American Chinese working for the American government mentioned the PR that he'd offer me last year, I replied:" It's not 1980s any more, a PR is not what I'm yearning for. After all, the US is not a welfare state like Australia and there's a slim chance for the Chinese to shine in the mainstream. I'd have better opportunities here in China, so just forget about it."

我非常擅長在極短的時間內去提高孩子們在托福或雅思考試中的成績,這節省他們的時間和金錢。我能在加拿大獲得同樣的尊重和金錢嗎?對此我表示非常懷疑。所以在中國的話,我至少有我的事業,當然,我現在還是個單身汪。但是如果在加拿大,我不僅沒有職業,我也沒有家庭,只有無盡的冬天。總而言之,大多數中國人想呆在中國。曾經有一位美國政府工作人員,他建議我移民。
我的回答是這樣的:
“現在已經不是80年代了,我已經不信那些宣傳了。畢竟,美國不是像澳大利亞那樣的福利國家。我在中國有機會在主流社會當中大放異彩,我在中國有更好的機會,所以你們就不要勸我了”。

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  7.Anonymous
Answered Mar 28, 2016
Though I don't want to admit it, most Chinese I met wanted to leave China for Western world. Most of them think like this because they don't know anything about living in another country. I've got my BA and Master degrees in US with a Chinese passport, like most other Chinese students before they ever set foot in North America, my parent told me to try my best to stay in US simply because they thought US was a far more developed society than China. During my several US-China round way flights I've met many native Chinese ranging from 20-year-olds to 50-year-olds who basically don't understand anything about US and they liked to talk how much they loved it. An example is that they would blame me because I was renting an apartment off campus instead of living in an on campus housing facility.

雖然我不想承認,但是我遇到的很多中國人都想離開中國去西方國家。很多人都持有這樣的想法,但是他們其實對異國的生活一無所知。
我的本科和碩士的學位都是在美國獲得的,我使用的是中國的身份。,我的父母與很多其他中國父母一樣,他們告訴我在美國要努力學習,努力的爭取要留在美國。因為在他們看來,美國是一個比中國發達得多的國家。因為我是在美國讀書,所以我有很多機會往返兩地。我遇到了很多的中國人,他們年齡從20歲到50歲不等。他們對美國基本上是一無所知。他們只是喜歡討論他們喜歡的東西。一個典型的例子,他們責備我,因為我是在美國校外租的房子,他們認為我應該在美國住宿舍。

To their view, I was "wasting" my parents' money because universities in China provide nearly free housing on campus and apartments near the universities are far more expensive because of the condensed population. In fact, I had 3 roommates and was only paying 1/5 of the school housing.Most people would think US (sometimes the whole western world) is filled with modern cities just like NYC. They would expect to buy an apartment (they didn't know they could buy a house or a condo) less than 5 miles away from downtown with several years of a "middle-class" salary.

在他們看來,我是在“浪費”父母的錢。因為中國的大學會為學生提供近乎于免費的住房,而大學附近的房子則會因為人口比較密集而房租高昂。事實上,我有3個室友,我們房租的價格只是相當于1/5的學校宿舍的房租價格。很多沒有出過國門的中國人會認為美國或者是整個西方世界都充滿了現代城市,就像他們在電視中看到的紐約一樣。他們搞不清公寓或者是套房。他們希望在離市中心不到5英里的地方買一套公寓,他們認為花個幾年的中產階級的薪水大概就夠了。

They wouldn't consider buying a car in a city because they thought public transportation was convenient and always available simply because Chinese buses and subway trains are only minutes apart.They imagine US as a far more advanced China filled with clean NY cities. My family has a friend who is a 50 years old lady. Let's call her Y. She has 1 little brother and 2 little sisters. All of them came to US 20 years ago and lived across the country. Y stayed in China for 15 years when her immigration application was in review, and last year she was finally approved. She brought her son, who also got the citizenship, to NY and immediately started to regret her life-long decision.

他們不會考慮在城市買一輛車,因為他們認為公共交通很方便,他們可以很方便的搭乘各種公共交通工具,在中國,搭乘公共交通工具的時間可能只需要花幾分鐘。他們把美國想象成是一個比中國發達得多的國家,他們認為美國充滿了很多干凈的,就像紐約那樣的城市。我們家有一個朋友,這是一位50歲的太太。我們稱她為Y,她有一個弟弟和兩個妹妹。他的弟弟和妹妹都是20年前來到美國,并在全國各地生活過。當她的移民申請被審查通過的時候,Y在中國等了15年。去年,她的申請終于被批準了。她帶著她的兒子去了紐約,然后他做了一個讓自己后悔終生的決定。

Before she ever moved, Y and her son were living in a 1500 square feet apartment with hospitals, schools, grocery markets and a beach within walking distance. And now she and her 6 feet 5 inch-tall son live in an 100 square feet room with a restroom that her son can never use because his knees would be blocked against the wall before he could sit on the toilet, and they need to walk 30 minutes to Flushing's bus station to get to any other places.

她在中國的時候,他和他的兒子住在一個1500平方英尺(譯者:140平方米)的公寓里面,那個地方有醫院,學校,雜貨店。距離他們的公寓沒有多遠的地方,就是一片海灘。他的兒子有6英尺5英寸(譯者:1.9米),他現在和他的兒子住在一個一百平方英尺(譯者:9.3平方米)的房子里,他的兒子膝蓋比洗手間的馬桶都要高,這給他的兒子造成一些困擾。如果他們想要去其他地方,他們必須要步行30分鐘才能夠到達公交車站。

She's now planning to come to Ohio and purchase a house, and probably delay her son's college for the in-state tuition.They just never make effort to study and understand another country, they took many public services as granted, they thought public schools in North America doesn't need anything to let their children in for education, and they never considered the fact that they can only get 1/10 of vegetable varieties in China. Oh, and they didn't care about the politics, until NYPD officer Liang.I'm planning to go back to China in July this year, and hopefully someday I don't need to tell my children to leave China just because there's some other country that is far more advanced.

他們現在想要在俄亥俄買一所房子,但是這樣可能會使她兒子上大學的學費交不齊。他們不去努力的學習和了解另外的一個國家,他們把其他國家的公共服務理解為理所當然,他們認為在北美接受教育不需要任何的費用支出,他們絕對沒有想到,在美國可以購買的蔬菜,只相當于中國購買蔬菜種類的1/10。
哦對了,他們完全不關心政治,直到紐約警察局出了梁警官事件。(譯者注:梁警官事件就是華裔警察流彈誤傷罪犯坐牢,白人警察槍擊嫌犯合法)

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  8.Anonymous
Answered Mar 30, 2016
The riches with good education background want to leave China for western countries, especially in US. A lot of people who are poor , Poor generation 2 , what to leave too, because there is no hope in life.  Poor Generation 2 (PG2) are taught by "Knowledge can change one's destiny" and conforted "people who are rich earlier will take  care of people who are not rich and  everyone become rich  in the end"by Deng But the reality in nowadays china is another story.The riches want to go aboard for financial security or their children good education and keep their own  peace in mind. Education and Internet is a window to outside world and money is passport.

很多富有的,受過良好教育背景的人,想要離開中國去西方國家,他們尤其想要去美國。一些窮人,窮二代,也想離開中國去美國,因為他們在生活當中沒有什么希望。中國的“窮二代”接受的是“知識可以改變命運”這樣的教育。而且中國改革開放的先行者說了“要讓先富帶動后富,最終變成共同富裕”。但是現實是什么樣子的呢,富人想要金融安全,想讓孩子擁有更好的教育,他們想要自己能夠安心。教育和互聯網就是一個開啟對外界的窗口,而金錢就是護照。

People with college education in china know outside. There are a different way  to live and to work. I think education is a window to the world, Especially English language and basic pc and mobile skills and know how to surf the internet. Home price keep people' heads looking down and control  people’s feet.There are also many people ( common people) with lower education they even dont know outside and don't give a shit to outside world and they have to care their own living , food , clothes , houses and marriage and take care of their children and grandchildren.

在中國,受過大學教育的人都知道外面的情況,他們知道有一種完全不同的生活方式和工作方式。我個人覺得教育就像是世界的一個窗口一樣,尤其是英語的技能和基本的計算機的技能,這會幫助他們更好的理解世界。房屋的價格讓人們踟躕不前,這抑制了人們前進的腳步。有一些受到教育程度不是那么高的人,他們也不知道外部世界的狀況。因此他們也不知道,應該要移民海外,他們不得不為自己的生活而奔忙,衣食住行,婚姻家庭,為他們的兒子和他們的孫子操心等等!

They don't give a shit to politics.Now higher home price make more people  rooted in china. Buying a apartment in cities means a lot to young man even to their family. Buying a apartment means a ticket to get marriage; Buy a automobile means a ticket  to marry much prettier girl with good family.  For girls or girls' mother or mother in law , they are enjoying bargaining chips  in good or pros position and can control men's life everywhere. Thanks to "One child policy " and "Boys valued more than girls " in traditional chinese culture and there are more man than women in number. There is power to promote "Wife Matters Culture "to support high home price also two children policy play same role.

他們對政治不感興趣。現在,更高的房價使得很多人扎根在中國。在城市里面擁有一座房子,對于中國的年輕人來講意味著很多,這對于他們家庭來講同樣意義重大。買房意味著獲得了可以結婚的門票,買一輛車意味著可以娶一個漂亮得多的女孩,然后組建一個好的家庭。
對于女孩或者是女孩的媽媽來講,他們擁有著有利的談判籌碼,他們可以控制男人的生活。在中國的傳統文化認為男孩比女孩更重要。但是,計劃生育政策又使得男孩比女孩多。中國的傳統文化中又認為人應該要有家庭才算是成功,這都使得房價很難降下來。即使是兩孩兒的政策都是這種文化的反映。

People become rich and the country become richer and stronger.In the long run,   no more push or investment to develop domestic economics. The rich take away not only money , capital also human capital , great element to further economic growth and high end market and  middle -class life and hopes and dreams.

人們變得更富有,國家變得更發達以及更強大。從長期來看,沒有太多的推動力或者是投資的話,就沒有辦法促進經濟長期的發展。富人帶走的并非僅僅是金錢,也帶走了人力資本,他們也帶走了未來可能的高端市場消費,他們帶走了中產階級的生活,帶走了中產階級的希望和夢想。(譯者注:國外審核移民主要是想要投資移民和技術移民,而這兩類人也是中國需要的,這兩類人的出走會對未來的經濟增長產生負面影響,使得未來能夠為后來者提供的機會也就變少了,想要通過做大蛋糕來讓弱勢群體受益的空間也就變小了。所以說,這位回答者說富人移民是偷走了窮人晉身中產階級的夢想。)

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9.Jack Noone, Studied Chinese for one year at Shanghai Jiaotong University. Had a blast! (杰克.諾德,在上海交大學習漢語)
Answered Sep 7, 2016
The wealthy and those with friends in high places are vulnerable if there is a change in the political scene. They would want to move as an insurance policy in case shit hits the fan at home. As for your average Chinese person, well they are either barely aware of the outside world and therefore not all that interested (if they live in a small town or village), or, for the most part in larger cities, realise that it is very difficult to emigrate and so don’t hold out much hope of doing so. They are generally content enough living in China, where their life, friends and family live (if someone wants to emigrate, they may meet stiff opposition in the shape of Ma and Ba).

如果政治的風向發生了變化,那么富有的人可能比較容易受到傷害,所以他們會采取一些保險策略。對于普通的中國人來說,他們要么就是完全沒有意識到外面的世界,因此他們對外界不感興趣。或者是對于很多大城市的人來講,他們意識到移民是一件很難的事,所以他們也沒有很強烈的意愿。他們大體上滿意他們在中國的生活,他們的朋友他們的家人都住在那里,如果一個人想要移民海外的話,他很可能會受到他的父母的反對。

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10.SYOU Totori, lives in China(陶特瑞,在中國生活)
Answered Jan 11, 2016
Interesting question. After browsing some answers here maybe we can make conclusion like "Chinese don't really want to immigrate but addicted to admire immigration life in their THOUGHTS.The mainly obstacles of immigrations among common Chinese  :
Habits especially food. Like my parents who have "dignity job" in hometown even don't like the food of other provinces of China. Once  I ask them in spite of economic problem whether choose to immgrate and they said NO.
And the most of my high school classmates (I think they are rich) who are studying abroad now always said they want back motherland after graduation. So I don't they economic problem is the root of it.

這是一個很有趣的問題。我瀏覽了一些答案,我覺得或許我們可以得出這樣的結論:“中國人并不是真的想移民,他們只是對移民的生活有很多的幻想。”普通中國人移民的主要障礙是:
(1)習慣不同,尤其是飲食差異。就像我的父母在家鄉有著“有尊嚴的”工作,他們甚至不喜歡中國其他省份的食物。于是我問他們,如果不考慮經濟問題的話,他們是否想要移民?他們的回答是“不”。
我的高中同學很富有,他在國外留學,他總是說以后要回國,所以我不認為很多人不想移民是因為沒有移民的條件。

Language problems. Just like what I am doing now,answer this question in my mother language Chinese is very easy but it is difficult for me to use English. Imagining I must spend my rest of life in such difficult way,I don't have much confidence. So does my Chinese fellows.
Relationships with family and colleagues. Because of differences in concepts and language problems not everyone can get a job like get in China. And the traditional eastern family emphasize showing obedience to family especially parents. Like me,for example,I can accept foreign life and live well but my parents just have the only child (because of one child policy).
As noted before,my parents even don't want to move to other provinces of China and although they have so called dignity job in China they can't  understand foreign languages at all. That means it's nearly impossible to let them immgrate together with me so it's means it's very difficult to take care of them if I immigrate.

(2)語言問題,就像我現在正在做的一樣,用母語回答這個問題很容易,但是我很難用英語。想象我必須以如此艱難的方式度過我的余生,我沒有多少信心。我的中國同事也是如此。
(3)人際關系,由于人的觀念和語言的差異,很多人到了國外,并不會獲得像中國那樣好的工作。傳統的東方家庭強調對家庭的服從,尤其是服從父母。我就是這樣的例子。我可以接受外國的生活,過得很好,但是因為一孩政策,我的父母只有一個孩子。
正如之前提到的,我的父母甚至不想搬到中國的其他省份,盡管他們在中國有所謂的“尊嚴工作”,但他們根本不懂外語。這就意味著,讓他們和我在一起是幾乎不可能的,所以,如果我移民了,就很難照顧他們了。

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11.Sean Gee(辛.吉)
upxed Mar 31, 2016
As a urban white collar of 29 years old, raised and educated in China, studying abroad is one of my plans in the coming years, while emigration is not my option.
Most of my friends living and working in Western countries now are those who went there after graduation from high school or university several years ago in pursuit of a Bachelor's Degree or Master's Degree. After graduation they naturally found a job and stayed.

我是一個29歲的中國城市白領,我在中國長大并接受教育。去海外留學是我未來的規劃之一。但是移民并不是我的選項。我的很多朋友都在西方國家里面工作和生活,他們是在高中或者大學的時候就去西方留學了,他們獲得了學士或者碩士學位。畢業之后,他們自然獲得了一份工作,并留了下來。

They all have decent, well-paid jobs. However, most of them have one thing in common about their careers. They do technology or accounting. In other words, they deal with code or numbers, communicating largely with computers rather than people. It's not like they all suddenly prefer jobs of certain specialty. They just don't have much of a choice. With high IQ and deep understanding of their majors, lack of perception of Western culture is a crucial drawback and limit the career choices.

他們都有體面而且高薪的工作。然而,他們中的大多數人在事業上都有一個共同點——他們做技術或會計。換句話說,他們處理的是代碼或數字,主要是與計算機通信,而不是人。這并不像是說他們突然喜歡某些專業的工作。他們只是沒有太多的選擇。由于高智商和對專業的深刻理解,他們得以具備從事技術工作的技能,但是由于他們對西方文化缺乏認識是,這是一個至關重要的缺點,這些缺陷限制了他們的職業選擇。

It's not fair to criticize that they concentrated too much energy on academic fields and disregarded the importance of studying Western culture and socializing inside and outside of campus . Actually those ambitious students were social leaders back in China and certainly knew how critical it is, if you try to start a career in another country, to get familiar with its history, politics, entertainment and culture. But no matter what efforts you make, how are you supposed to take part in your colleagues' conversation about the super bowl of 2005? Isn't that too much to ask for a foreigner?

批評他們把太多精力放在學術領域,忽視了學習西方文化和校園內外社交的重要性,這是不公平的。實際上,這些雄心勃勃的學生在中國的話都是很拔尖的人物。他們當然知道,如果你想在另一個國家開始一段職業生涯,了解它的歷史、政治、娛樂和文化,那是多么的重要。但是無論你做了什么努力,你怎么才能參與到你的同事們關于2005年超級碗的談話中呢?對外國人來說,這是不是太過分了?

For me, I don't want to bind my career path with pure tech-oriented jobs. I like hanging out with people, making friends and expressing my ideas and innovation. These kinds of work are not that friendly to a foreigner in other countries. For me and many young people with similar educational background and outgoing personality, taking account of our careers, emigration is just not an profitable option.

對我來說,我不想把我的職業道路和純粹的以科技為導向的工作結合在一起。我喜歡和人在一起,交朋友,表達我的思維和我的創意。這類工作很特殊,非母語文化環境的人很難做好這類的工作。對于我和許多有著相似教育背景和性格外向的年輕人來說,為了我們的工作生涯認真計算的話,移民實在不是的一個有利可圖的選擇。

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12.Robert Kaya, Self-Employed (2002-present)(羅伯特.卡亞,自由職業者)
Answered Sep 5
Due to the nature of my job, I am meeting many people from different nationalities, including Chinese. I got acquainted with hundreds of them who are mostly students. The first thing they do when they arrive in Australia is to plan as to how to become a PR and subsequently obtain the citizenship. Let me give you two very recent things I experienced:
I met a very attractive and articulate young Chinese lady who arrived in Australia first time in her life. She came over here for business purpose less than two weeks ago (At the time I met her. Probably a government employee?)

因為我工作性質的原因,我結識了很多來自于不同國家的人,這其中就包括中國人。這些人中的大多數都是學生。當他們到達澳大利亞的時候,他做的第一件事就是去獲取公民身份。我講一下我最近遇到的一些事情:我遇到了一位非常有魅力,口齒伶俐的年輕的中國女士。兩周前,她第一次來到澳大利亞,她來到澳大利亞是因為商業上的因素。我猜她可能是一位中國的政府工作人員。

I asked her how she found the country and if she would like to make a geographical change. Her answer was swift and direct, namely she said "If I could get a permit, I wouldn't hesitate". The conversation was pretty short but her answer summed up her true desire.
-I also met a 42 year old Chinese gentleman who claimed to have had his degree in Accountancy 14 (Fourteen years ago) and told me that he was planning to start with his own business. When I asked him what he was doing prior to his new venture, he admitted that he worked in a Chinese restaurant for 14 years!(Fourteen years) Despite his 'qualification', he preferred working in a restaurant rather than going back to China and practising his "Accountancy'!

我問她,她是怎么找到澳大利亞的,什么樣的國家才會讓她愿意改變國籍?他的回答簡單而直接,她說:“如果我獲得允許的話,那么我就不會遲疑。” 我們的談話非常簡短,但她的回答反映了她的真實想法。我還遇到一位42歲的中國紳士,他聲稱自己在14年前獲得了會計學的學位。他說他打算從他的老本行開始做起。當我詢問他在這份新工作之前做的工作的時候,他最后承認他在中餐館做了14年。雖然他有資格,但是他更喜歡在中餐館里工作,而不是回到中國去從事他的專業工作。

In a nutshell, the percentage who wants to stay in the West could be perhaps "TOO SMALL "but lets not forget that China sends millions of students to all over the world, mostly to the developed Western Countries. A small percentage of even 5% makes a significant difference given the millions are pouring out of the country each year. This is not something to be sneezed at!Please don't take my comments you lying down. The words 'racism/racist' lost their power as these words often, over and misused!

總而言之,可能想要留在西方的人數比例可能并不多,但是我們不要忘了,中國每年派遣數以百萬計的學生去全世界,他們大多數去的都是西方發達國家。考慮到數以百萬計的人涌入這些國家,即使5%的人想要留下來,那都是一個很大的數字。這可不是件小事情。請不要把我的說法看成是種族主義,我只是客觀的評估一下影響。

12.1Roger Jiang
Sep 6 · 1 upvote from Robert Kaya
Why would anyone call you a racist for telling what you have seen or heard? Any one’s observation, as long as it is truthful, should be appreciated. There are lots of people who want easier lives in the West (lives in China could be quite competitive - the apartments in Shanghai and Beijing are usually well over one million USD for example). There are also people who want the career opportunities that China offfers due to its rapid growth. My wife graduated from an Ivy League school in the US and about 70–80% of her Chinese classmates chose to return to China after graduation - most of them got globally competitive packages though.So I’d say it varies a lot.

為什么你會覺得有人認為你的說法是種族主義?告訴別人你看到的或聽到的東西,只要你說的是真實的,就應該被欣賞。很多想要移居西方的人都是想要活得更輕松一些,在中國的競爭壓力可是很大的。北京和上海的公寓通常都要超過一百萬美元。有些人想要獲取中國的職業發展機會,因為中國的經濟增長非常快。我的妻子畢業于美國的一所常春藤盟校,大約70%-80%的中國同學在畢業后選擇回到中國,但他們中的大多數人都獲得了具有全球競爭力的待遇。所以我說有關于這個問題的回答可能是很多樣化的。

12.1.1Robert Kaya
Sep 6
Some do ..Unfortunately!

一些人確實會認為我的說法是種族主義,這很不幸。

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  13.Kin Sing, Servant(凱恩.金)
Answered Sep 6
I think this is human nature. I also see a lot of people from Eastern Europe moving to Western Europe, Middle East to Europe. Asia to Australia to North America……. Men prefer to live in a more comfortable enjoyable place, that is their nature. But then there are people who immigrated and found they could not find jobs or the place was not what they wanted, eventually they moved back to their own country. There are so many Chinese people living abroad, you can find China towns neatly in every other countries.

我認為這是人的本性。我看到很多東歐人移民到西歐,中東人移民到歐洲。亞洲人移民到澳大利亞和北美等地方。人們喜歡住在一個更舒適的地方,這是人的天性。但是,有些人移民之后,發現找不到工作,而且那些地方也與他們最初設想的差距甚遠。最終,他們搬回了自己的國家。生活在國外的中國人太多了,你可以在其他國家找到很多的中國城。

Chinese people are adaptable, so eventually I believe Chinese will invade the whole world by immigration. But then there are always people that are not that selfish, they want to stay behind to try to build their own countries even if they have the opportunity to immigrate. If all the intelligent people move to other countries, their own countries will continue to be backward and not growing.

中國人的適應能力很強,所以我相信中國人會通過移民來占領整個世界。但是,總有一些人不是那么自私,即使他們有機會移民,他們依然想要留下來,努力建設自己的國家。如果中國所有的聰明人都搬到其他地方去了,那么中國將會衰退,而不可能,像現在這樣高歌猛進。

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